[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/session.php on line 1007: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at /config.php:17)
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/session.php on line 1007: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at /config.php:17)
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/session.php on line 1007: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at /config.php:17)
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/functions.php on line 4183: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at /config.php:17)
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/functions.php on line 4185: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at /config.php:17)
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/functions.php on line 4186: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at /config.php:17)
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/functions.php on line 4187: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at /config.php:17)
Hyde Definition | Discussion Board • View topic - SAS Smock

SAS Smock

Got a great idea for an item of clothing, or can improve something in our range? Maybe you've worn the best jacket or trousers ever created, and want to share the love? Post your thoughts here. Your input could influence future Hyde Definition designs!

SAS Smock

Postby Dom Hyde on Tue Apr 28, 2009 1:07 am

The SAS style smock prototype (actually the second one - the other is being battered to death on various skirmish sites :lol: ) got a universally good reception at the Game Fair on the weekend. I could have sold it 10 times over for at least £100 a pop, if I'd had any more :(

However, to paraphrase a well known adage - you can't please all the people all the time.

Feedback from the show: Some people liked it just as it was, but most had an opinion about something that should be changed to suit their requirements. I'll talk about rifle and shotgun users first.

Some shooters would have preferred it without the breast pockets, or at least without flaps and buttons that might impede shouldering a gun. Other shooters thought the pockets were fine, and useful for accessing while lying prone without having to lift the head and shoulders too much. Side entry pockets were suggested by some, and seem to solve most issues without presenting too many new ones. Arm pockets were either seen as reasonably useful, or at least tolerated if they didn't get in the way. Big lower pockets were universally popular, but opinions varied as to the best placement for them, depending on whether the wearer prefers a prone shooting position or not. No-one thought the hand warmer pockets were a bad idea, but giving them a fleece lining was requested. External poacher pockets are OK, and internal are too, if under the arms/chest, but are not popular inside the back.

Pit zips - the ones on the new UKSF smocks are good apparently, and most people suggested similar. The mesh under the arms of our Pioneer field shirt was also praised, so maybe a combination of the two would be a good idea?

Most people eschewed velcro-style fastenings in favour of buttons or stud fasteners, but there was no clear majority in favour of either, and those that liked one solution generally hated the other :roll: A good suggestion from two independent sources was a quick release waist fastening of some kind, allowing the waist to be cinched tight with cords or flaps that clipped together at the front, but ripped apart if you needed to get out (or be got out) of your gear in a hurry.

There was a similar divide over the hood - some people favoured a wired hood, some said they took the wire out. Shock cord was suggested by some, but those who liked wired hoods liked to be able to shape it, and you can't do that with shock cord. Built in peaks, drop-down veils/scrim, removable. rollable, zip away, lined, unlined, you name it - someone made a case for it. It definitely isn't going to be a one-size for all solution!

A lot of people saw a smock as a 3 season outer layer, and expected water and wind protection from it. Part of the reason that the smock has not gone into production yet is that the cotton we are using right now (for the shirts and trousers) is not weatherproof enough for comfortable winter wear. Laminated breathable membranes, including Goretex, were most peoples choice, coupled with a removable insulated inner liner and a rustle-free outer shell.

'Sniper Steve', as well as having a lot of useful opinions on all of the aforementioned, explained how he preferred a jacket to hang very long - thigh length - and to have a beaver tail, both of which prevent the jacket riding up and exposing the kidney area to cold. Similarly, when bringing the rifle to the shoulder from a prone position, even more freedom of movement is required around the arms than in a standing or crouching position.

A lot of this is of course common sense, and many garments on the market already reflect this. Some of the Sneaky-Beaky stuff by SASS, for instance, is right on the money, but I don't believe you can give people what they want until you find out what they want, and throw a few ideas back to see the response they get.

As far as the fishing fraternity were concerned, the main thing was waterproofing and insulation, everything else was secondary. In general, the majority preferred cleaner lines without buttons and flaps to snag. Probably, a smock isn't the ideal garment for their needs, and the preponderance of waist-length bomber and snowboard/sailing style jackets for anglers would appear to support my theory.

All in all, a very informative experience, and fuel for much arse scratching over the coming weeks. Thanks to all who stopped by to give their tuppence worth!
The Camo Side of Dominic Hyde http://domhyde.wordpress.com/

Art is a step from what is obvious and well-known toward what is arcane and concealed.
Kahlil Gibran
User avatar
Dom Hyde
Site Admin
 
Posts: 127
Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2008 6:25 pm
Location: Norfolk, UK

Re: SAS Smock

Postby Matt on Wed Nov 04, 2009 7:41 pm

Been browsing the site thinking "damn, I wish they did a smock version" ...and then spotted this thread :)

Grateful for an update on smock availability.

Or, if the idea hasn't moved forward since your Apr post, grateful for info as to whether it is possible to purchase sufficient material to have one made up.

Many thanks!

Matt
Matt
 
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Nov 04, 2009 7:32 pm

Re: SAS Smock

Postby Matt on Sun Nov 08, 2009 9:02 pm

Nothing? :)
Matt
 
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Nov 04, 2009 7:32 pm

Re: SAS Smock

Postby Dom Hyde on Tue Nov 10, 2009 4:40 pm

Matt wrote:Been browsing the site thinking "damn, I wish they did a smock version" ...and then spotted this thread :)

Grateful for an update on smock availability.

Or, if the idea hasn't moved forward since your Apr post, grateful for info as to whether it is possible to purchase sufficient material to have one made up.

Many thanks!

Matt


Sorry for the delayed reply. We've used up our latest print run, and we're now talking with a number of continental companies about getting their kit manufactured in PenCott camo, kit which includes a British Army-style hooded windproof smock, a US M-65 style BDU jacket and an ACU cut. We may drop our shirt design in favour of a more conventional cut. Also, some of these companies manufacture under-armour shirts and ripstop shell covered fleeces, which we would also like to have done in PenCott too. Negotiations are slow, however, so I'm afraid I can't give a timeline right now.
The Camo Side of Dominic Hyde http://domhyde.wordpress.com/

Art is a step from what is obvious and well-known toward what is arcane and concealed.
Kahlil Gibran
User avatar
Dom Hyde
Site Admin
 
Posts: 127
Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2008 6:25 pm
Location: Norfolk, UK

Re: SAS Smock

Postby Matt on Thu Nov 12, 2009 9:40 pm

Thanks for the answer :)

Personally, I can't see any use for the shirt and would wholeheartedly recommend going the smock route; hopefully in a lightweight gaberdine or ripstop -but definitely not a water absorbing heavy twill.

...and please make sure the pockets are the same size and placing as on issue windproofs; arktis pockets are smaller and the chest pockets are too low (so that, when full, they interfere with bending), all the european copies (such as tacgear) also have 'shrunken' pockets. A korean multicam copy doing the rounds also has the same bizarre 'small pockets' affliction.

...whilst I'm on a roll, please wire the hood, people who say not to are simply indicating that they have never experienced extreme weather .
Matt
 
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Nov 04, 2009 7:32 pm

Re: SAS Smock

Postby Dom Hyde on Sat Nov 14, 2009 12:16 pm

Matt wrote:Thanks for the answer :)

Personally, I can't see any use for the shirt and would wholeheartedly recommend going the smock route; hopefully in a lightweight gaberdine or ripstop -but definitely not a water absorbing heavy twill.

...and please make sure the pockets are the same size and placing as on issue windproofs; arktis pockets are smaller and the chest pockets are too low (so that, when full, they interfere with bending), all the european copies (such as tacgear) also have 'shrunken' pockets. A korean multicam copy doing the rounds also has the same bizarre 'small pockets' affliction.

...whilst I'm on a roll, please wire the hood, people who say not to are simply indicating that they have never experienced extreme weather .


OK, that's good advice, thanks Matt!
The Camo Side of Dominic Hyde http://domhyde.wordpress.com/

Art is a step from what is obvious and well-known toward what is arcane and concealed.
Kahlil Gibran
User avatar
Dom Hyde
Site Admin
 
Posts: 127
Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2008 6:25 pm
Location: Norfolk, UK

Re: SAS Smock

Postby Smoke and Fire on Sun Dec 20, 2009 2:17 am

Hey Dom,

I've been reading through this forum carefully...looked at every picture I could....

As an ex Canadian Military guy, I'm highly impressed with the Camo Pattern...the effectiveness seems high and good design concept...

Personally, as a Canadian and VERY familiar with inclement weather and COLD during the fall and winter..( All of our hunting here is done in th fall months for water foul and Deer / Moose / Bear Ect. the limited "Green" in your pattern works well...

I too will support what others have said, for the Canadian Market, upper USA etc., a "Ventilated" shirt is USELESS...a medium weight shirt and a heavier Smock or jacket would be far more usefull...

The "Canadian" style of buttons are awesome...have them on most everything, from Fire Department issue Tac. Pants to my old Canadian Military Uniforms...

I have a question about your theory behind the "Ventilated" bellows pockets...would they not catch on everything in your pockets?...ripping them and causing greif?...just never have I seen that before...anywhere...

If you were to produce a set of uniforms/ garments of simular weight ( Fabric) to the US and Canadian military Uniforms, that would be awesome for our spring / summer then with a Smock to layer on for the fall it would be GREAT...

Cheers and keep up the good work..
Smoke and Fire
 
Posts: 3
Joined: Sat Dec 19, 2009 11:24 pm

Re: SAS Smock

Postby Dom Hyde on Mon Feb 01, 2010 2:11 am

Smoke and Fire wrote:Hey Dom,

I've been reading through this forum carefully...looked at every picture I could....

As an ex Canadian Military guy, I'm highly impressed with the Camo Pattern...the effectiveness seems high and good design concept...

Personally, as a Canadian and VERY familiar with inclement weather and COLD during the fall and winter..( All of our hunting here is done in th fall months for water foul and Deer / Moose / Bear Ect. the limited "Green" in your pattern works well...

I too will support what others have said, for the Canadian Market, upper USA etc., a "Ventilated" shirt is USELESS...a medium weight shirt and a heavier Smock or jacket would be far more usefull...

The "Canadian" style of buttons are awesome...have them on most everything, from Fire Department issue Tac. Pants to my old Canadian Military Uniforms...

I have a question about your theory behind the "Ventilated" bellows pockets...would they not catch on everything in your pockets?...ripping them and causing greif?...just never have I seen that before...anywhere...

If you were to produce a set of uniforms/ garments of simular weight ( Fabric) to the US and Canadian military Uniforms, that would be awesome for our spring / summer then with a Smock to layer on for the fall it would be GREAT...

Cheers and keep up the good work..


Thanks! Your input is duly noted :)

Regarding the 'ventilated' pockets, the design hasn't caused any problems that I'm aware of. The mesh is a heavy polyester weave similar to that used in assault vests, etc. and is only at the base of the pocket, not on the back part. So where you might have had grommets or even just 'buttonhole' style drainage in the bottom of your pockets on your BDU, the mesh in this design drains and dries quicker. A box or bellows shaped pocket will often have the bottom and/or sides attached as a separate piece, so it's not necessarily weaker than any other pocket, as long as it is stitched well!
User avatar
Dom Hyde
Site Admin
 
Posts: 127
Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2008 6:25 pm
Location: Norfolk, UK

Re: SAS Smock

Postby spartina on Tue Mar 30, 2010 6:24 pm

So what's happening Don?

sparty.
spartina
 
Posts: 23
Joined: Tue Mar 24, 2009 7:16 pm


Return to Garment Feedback

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron